<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Minutes: OE-TSC Meeting, 3 November 2011</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
_____________________________________________________________________</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Attended: Richard, Tom, Koen, Mark</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Apologies: Khem</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
Minutes: Jefro</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">_____________________________________________________________________</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Agenda & action items:</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
<br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">- OE GA at ELCE</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
overall very positive, though long, meeting</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "> * publish GA proceedings before Friday (jefro)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "> </div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
- bitbake release</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "> * 1.14.0 ready to go when servers return (RP)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
<br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">- oe-lite</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
general agreement to investigate collaboration</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "> * continue discussion on bitbake mailing list (RP)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "> </div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
- oe-core with selinux, other security </div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "> start in a layer, with implementation sufficient that if it were folded into oe-core it would be acceptable</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "> * summarize process to wiki (fray)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">- other</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
major issue with opkg, libbb issue</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
Noted for future discussion:</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">- review tools (khem)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
- "OE classic read only" thing (koen)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">- TSC responsible for setting up OEDEM?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
Noted for future TSC meetings: meeting time is based on European time, not UTC</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">_____________________________________________________________________</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Raw Transcript:</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
<br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:51] <+fray> I remember we had this discussion last year and decided that TSC meetings were based on European time..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:51] <+fray> (note sure we said -which- european time though) ;)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[19:51] <+Jefro> that's crazy talk</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:51] <+koen> like I said, DST :)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:51] <+Jefro> I thought they were based on UTC?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[19:51] * fray doesn't care personally</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:52] <+fray> ...as long as we meet at the same time.. ;)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:52] <+koen> I'm here anyway</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[19:52] <+Jefro> actually makes no dif to me either, today</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:52] <+Jefro> I'll send a note to Khem & Tom</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:54] == Tartarus [<a href="mailto:trini@pixelshelf.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); ">trini@pixelshelf.com</a>] has joined #oe-tsc</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:54] == mode/#oe-tsc [+v Tartarus] by ChanServ</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[19:54] <+Tartarus> I'm, uh, as ready as I'll ever be</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:54] <+Tartarus> So if RP and koen want out sooner, that's fine</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:55] <+fray> ready now or later..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[19:58] <+koen> I'm ready</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:58] * RP__ is here</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[19:59] <+Jefro> I have not heard from Khem, but everyone else seems to be present & ok to meet</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[19:59] <+RP__> We did say Europe time which is an hour from now</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[19:59] <+RP__> but I'm here</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:00] <+fray> khem the only one missing?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:00] <+Jefro> fray: yes, I believe so</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:00] <+RP__> Isn't Khem out anyway?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:00] <+koen> ISTR he is on a multiweek holiday</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:00] <+fray> I seem tor embmer something about that</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:01] * RP__ too</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:01] * RP__ suggests we have the meeting</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:01] <+fray> ok, I'm up for a meeting</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:01] * koen 2</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:01] <+RP__> So - chairperson</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:02] <+RP__> I can volunteer</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:02] <+RP__> agenda?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:02] * Jefro notes RP__ = chair</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:02] <+Jefro> agenda: 1. any new agenda items?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:03] <+Jefro> agenda: 2. status on regular items</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:03] <+RP__> touch on OE e.V. meeting</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:03] <+RP__> bitbake release</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:03] <+RP__> infrastructure update will be hard without khem</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:03] <+fray> postponed item from last meeting.....</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:03] <+RP__> We should perhaps talk about oe-lite</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:03] <+fray> (which I don't remember suddenly)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:04] * Jefro is checking minutes from last meeting - we had a few deferred items</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:04] <+RP__> While Jefro is doing that let me take the e.V meeting</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:04] <+fray> thanx</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:04] <+RP__> Basic summary is the meeting ran on a lot, 3 hours</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:05] <+RP__> we didn't get to touch on the tsc as planned</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:05] <+RP__> so if we want feedback I'd suggest we go for the mailing list</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:05] <+fray> sounds like a good idea to me..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:05] <+RP__> Jefro will publish minutes of that meeting</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:05] <+RP__> In general ELC-E was very positive IMO</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:05] * koen proposes to rename everything to 'yocto' to avoid confusion to the outside world</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:05] * Jefro notes: proceedings from GA are nearly ready to post</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:06] <+RP__> koen: I'm not giving up on this naming business yet ;-)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:06] * fray regrets not being able to attend.. but with the bum leg, I gave up trying to get their own my own</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:06] <+RP__> Let me talk about oe-lite for a minute</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:07] <+RP__> I guess people all know the history?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:07] <+Jefro> before going on - I found two items from last meeting that are now on the agenda</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:07] <+Jefro> from fray: oe-core with selinux, other security</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:07] <+RP__> Esben didn't like certain things in OE and created OE-Lite</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:07] <+fray> ahh yes....</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:07] <+RP__> Jefro: what was the last topic last week that ran on?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:07] <+RP__> ah PR stuff</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:08] <+RP__> Esben has continued development of OE-Lite and is doing some rather nice stuff there by the sounds of it</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:08] <+Jefro> reading - PR bumps</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:08] <+fray> fewer packages? smaller stuff or?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:08] <+fray> how is it different?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:08] <+RP__> The trouble is he is breaking compatibility since he doesn't need that</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:08] <+RP__> fray: sysroot per recipe</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:08] <+fray> 'k</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:08] <+RP__> fray: and all package based dependencies</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:09] <+RP__> so he rewrote the dependency code in bitbake</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:09] <+RP__> but he's now also been looking at the parser and has rewritten that</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:09] <+RP__> and found inconsistencies in our current syntax</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:09] <+RP__> He also handles checksums differently</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:10] <+RP__> and many other details, its very different now</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:10] <+RP__> The question is whether we'd want to try and see them move closer together again and whether we can get back to a more common code base</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:10] <+fray> between that and build-root.. is sounds like it would be a good idea to identify the different implementation (and feature) details and understand if any of it looks like a "better" way then what we currently have -- or something that can fill a gap</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:11] <+fray> I'm always in favor of trying to come together with other projects..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:11] <+RP__> fray: The other big difference Esben is proud of is that its simpler and easier to use</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:11] <+RP__> e.g. he removed package management</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:11] <+fray> At the least, I think we need to understand what was removed and what it fixed.. then most likely if we can duplicate that -- we may be able to solve some issues..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:12] <+RP__> I feel as a TSC we need to look at why he's done things differently and see if there are ways we can collaborate</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:12] <+fray> I agree</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:13] <+RP__> I should also note Esben has no resources so would be looking for others to help</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:13] <+fray> (I'm going to inject buildroot for a second based on the email to the members list.. the idea of the common upstream patch set, etc... is something we should help explore w/ buildroot.. that was part of the goal for the Yocto Project..)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:13] <+koen> we had the common patch thing happen a few years ago as well</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:14] <+RP__> It keeps coming up</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:14] <+koen> that quickly degenerated into "you OE guys need to do all the work, we'll steal your patches"</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:14] <+fray> syncing up projects, common patch repositories, etc all require people to work together..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:14] <+RP__> We've tried to push directly upstream in general</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:14] <+fray> koen (speaking for Yocto and not OE for a second).. I don't know that the Yocto people would be against that.. "hey you do all of the work and we steal your patches"..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:14] <+RP__> The trouble is that those other projects value their "simplicity"</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:14] <+RP__> That is the biggest difference that comes up now</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:15] <+RP__> and I can't fault them for that</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:15] <+fray> In general terms, I like things that simplify packages, building and configurations for more embedded usage.. we just need people to take ownership of the item and say, hey I think we have a better way...</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:15] <+koen> fray: just giving historical perspective</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:15] <+fray> but when it comes down to it in the end, it often doesn't work well because the changes can interfer w/ the full functionality version</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:16] <+RP__> I'm still hoping we can make a fully featured and easy to use OE</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:16] <+fray> ...the other thing (in my experience) is then when this works it's very good.. when it doesn't work, people have to be willing to step back and decide it's not going to work.. ;)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:16] <+fray> RP__ agreed</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:17] <+RP__> Also, Esben thought things like the parser changes might not be acceptable to us</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:17] <+fray> still worth looking into IMHO</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:17] <+RP__> I've said that they are providing it doesn't change the world</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:17] <+RP__> i.e. we should at least talk about them</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:18] <+RP__> I know the specific way he's implemented recipe specific sysroots isn't appropriate but that feature is still on the yocto feature list of possible enhancements too</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:18] <+koen> so for parser stuff: tsc ml, oe-core ml, bitbakeml?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:18] <+RP__> koen: I'd say bitbake list</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:18] <+fray> ya, int he end bitbake list..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:19] <+RP__> but oe-lite's bitbake is very different now I'm told :/</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:20] <+RP__> So, summary, thinking of the overall architecture there is some discussions we should have</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:20] <+RP__> Also its worth noting buildroot have decided not to add package management support to buildroot</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:20] <+RP__> too invasive (and hence complex) thereby changing one of their main advantages</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:21] <+RP__> so - next topic</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:21] <+RP__> bitbake release</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:21] <+RP__> 1.14.0 should roll when the servers come back</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:22] * RP__ doesn't have anything to add on that topic</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:22] <+koen> and oe-core gets a req bump?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:22] <+RP__> koen: doesn't need one at this point</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:22] <+koen> ok, just checking</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:22] * RP__ will propose removing fetch v1 from 1.15 though</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:22] <+RP__> which means 1.15 will no longer work with oe-classic</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:22] <+RP__> any objections?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:23] <+fray> Unless there are any planned changes to bitbake to enhance oe-classic.. I have no objections..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:23] <+koen> not from me</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:23] <+Tartarus> sounds good</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:23] * koen doesn't use OE classic anymore, only copies stuff from the git tree</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:23] <+RP__> It seems like a natural step to take at this point</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:24] <+RP__> other general status updates?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:24] <+koen> I guess we'll need to discuss the "OE classic read only" thing soon</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:24] <+RP__> We've having issues with the useradd class but I think we've got them mostly under control</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:24] <+koen> (not today)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:24] <+RP__> Jefro: note as a future topic for discussion?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:24] * Jefro notes future discussion on oe-classic read only</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:24] <+RP__> we do have a major issue with opkg</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:24] <+fray> RP__ ya the useradd stuff is getting better from what I can tell</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:25] <+RP__> and likely need to hack the ancient libbb code in there :(</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:25] <+fray> the issue w/ the opkg is that it's relying on actual uid/gid and not uname/gname.. deb and rpm work on the names..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:25] <+fray> (assuming I have the summary right, RP?)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:25] <+RP__> fray: correct</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:26] <+RP__> fray: and the quick look I took at the code shows the problem to be in libbb</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:26] <+RP__> (at least)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:26] <+koen> RP__: have you mailed the opkg-devel list about it?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:27] <+RP__> I pushed the gettext changes which are worth about an 8% speedup on a quadcore</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:27] <+RP__> koen: not yet</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:27] <+koen> r627 is also problematic for use, we'll need to pass --force-postinstall in the classes</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:27] <+RP__> koen: that isn't very active is it?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:27] <+koen> RP__: fews mails per month</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:27] <+fray> the PSEUDO_UNLOAD stuff is ready to go in.. just an FYI, found an issue w/ clone(2) may not have been wrapped properly in pseudo.. but we've never seen a failure in practice..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:28] <+RP__> fray: great, that should be worth a couple more percent :)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:28] <+fray> PSEUDO_UNLOAD (w/ change to bitbake) will eliminate some of the LD_PRELOAD penalty</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:28] <+RP__> ok, any other general status updates?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:28] <+koen> RP__: <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/opkg-devel/topics" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); ">http://groups.google.com/group/opkg-devel/topics</a></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:28] <+fray> (I find it interesting it's faster to have pseudo loaded in memory, then load it only when needed.. and faster yet to -unload- it when we know its not needed)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:29] <+RP__> btw, for the bitbake release, I'm pushing the files onto yocto's downloads directory</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:29] <+RP__> I'm more than happy for that to be on OE servers but until we figure out the infrastructure I'm putting them *somewhere*</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:29] <+RP__> berlios is going away in 7 weeks</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:30] <+koen> rapidshare</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:30] <+RP__> fray: given the exec penalty I'm not so surprised ;-)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:30] * koen hides</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:30] <+fray> hey there would be no exec penalty if it wasn't for you.. ;)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:30] <+RP__> fray: ?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:31] <+fray> (we implemented the exec loading in pseudo to have the PSEUDO_DISABLED case) ;)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:31] <+fray> (I'm kidding BTW)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:31] <+RP__> fray: right ;-)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:31] <+RP__> ok, any other general status updates?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:31] <+Tartarus> not here</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:31] <+koen> nope</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:32] <+RP__> Tartarus: you're very quiet ;-)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:32] <+Jefro> still to discuss: (1) oe-core with selinux, other security, (2) review tools</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:32] <+fray> ready on (1)?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:32] <+RP__> Jefro: I was just searching for that</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:32] <+RP__> fray: go for it</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:33] <+fray> Ok, so this is more of a philisophical question then "hey what do you think about selinux"</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:33] <+Tartarus> reading and multitasking atm</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:33] <+RP__> fray: My take is that "it depends"</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:33] <+fray> Basically the issue is, as security frameworks (and other system wide frameworks) come into being.. Do we have a policy for reviewing them and deciding if they belong in "meta"?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:33] <+RP__> fray: How big is this patch set and what maintenance burden does it entail?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:33] <+fray> or is it something we tell people to implement in a layer (via bbappend preferrably?) and then if it's popular we include it.. or?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:34] <+RP__> fray: If we're talking two small patches its a no brainer. If it involved 500kb of patches per recipe, I'm not happy</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:34] <+fray> security frameworks happen to be the issue of the week for me... but I can see it for other things as we move forward as well.. what I'm looking for is simply guidance to give to people..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:34] <+koen> start as a layer, go from there :)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:34] <+RP__> fray: I suspect its somewhere in the middle ;-)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:35] <+RP__> and yes, my gut reaction is "what does this look like in a layer" would be a good initial approach</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:35] <+fray> ok, so best practice for (more then one or two patches) is a layer.. would that layer be accepted back into oe-core?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:35] <+RP__> fray: who would be maintaining it?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:35] <+RP__> fray: would someone step up and keep the layer in sync with the core as it changed?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:35] <+fray> I think that is part of the question.. if it's a layer, then "someone" has to maintain that layer.. if it goes back to meta.. then it would be merged and existing maintainers used..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:35] <+koen> does it need to be in oe-core?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:36] <+fray> RP__ that is one of my concerns with the layer approach for a security layer at least</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:36] <+Tartarus> Well, here's how I see it</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:36] <+fray> koen, that is another question... especially for something like seliux</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:36] <+Tartarus> These are big new "features" in a way</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:36] <+Tartarus> So do it in a layer</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:36] <+RP__> fray: I'd like to understand how big/invasive these patches are</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:36] <+Tartarus> Get it working and clean</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:36] <+Tartarus> Then it can be evaluated</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:36] <+RP__> fray: maybe start with the minimal images?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:36] <+fray> RP__ some of them can be large, others are simply just adding --enable-selinux to a configure line..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:36] <+Tartarus> No "foot in the door" of 5 patches</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:36] <+RP__> this is what we did with x32 for example</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:36] <+Tartarus> Then a big explosion later to make it useful, etc</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:37] <+fray> but we need a way to continue (even with a layer) to control this stuff via the feature/distribution flags.. (the selinux example IMHO is a distro flag item</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:37] <+RP__> fray: you can have a distro feature flag in a layer</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:37] <+Tartarus> Sure, but that's independent</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:37] <+koen> oe-core is too big already, adding more layers needs to be considered very carefully</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:37] <+fray> ok.. let me sumerize.. something like a new major feature -- i.e. a security layer -- should be initially implemented and maintained in a layer..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:38] <+fray> it's implementation should be sufficient that if it were folded into oe-core it would be acceptable..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:38] <+fray> over time, the usage and demands of the oe members (and users) will guide if the feature remains in a layer or if it gets folded in..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:38] <+koen> and appropriate</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:38] <+fray> the above reasonable?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:38] <+RP__> fray: I think so</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:38] <+Tartarus> with as koen said, yes</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:39] <+fray> ok, good enough..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:39] <+Jefro> fray: that summary seems like it should be on a wiki page</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:39] <+fray> Jefro, ya..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:40] <+fray> you can add an AI for me to do that.. I just need to know "where"</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:40] <+Jefro> fray that is the question ... :)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:41] <+Jefro> let's discuss offline</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:41] <+RP__> So any other business?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:41] <+fray> 'k</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:41] <+Jefro> time-check: 19 minutes to go, one remaining agenda item from last meeting: review tools</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:41] <+RP__> which tools?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:41] <+RP__> koen: any objection to replacing gconf-dbus with gconf btw?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:41] <+koen> I heard someone mention that organizing OEDEM "is TSC business"</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:41] <+Jefro> I don't know, that was the agenda item</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:41] <+koen> RP__: gconf-bus is blacklisted in angstrom</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:42] <+koen> RP__: Josh has been keeping me up to date with his intentions</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:42] <+Jefro> "review tools" was from khem, perhaps we can wait on that one</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:42] <+RP__> koen: ok, good</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:42] <+RP__> Jefro: I don't understand which tools so yes, better wait</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:42] <+fray> fine w/ me</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:42] <+Jefro> ok - then I believe agenda is clear</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:42] <+RP__> koen: FWIW Yocto is looking at whether we can tag a day onto ELC</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:43] <+koen> RP__: josh discovered that his planned rework of gnome bbclasses was already done in meta-oe</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:43] <+RP__> Yocto/OE developer day/summit kind of thing</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:43] <+Tartarus> Ug, sorry, I need to step away for a bit now</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:43] <+RP__> Tartarus: I think we're about done</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:43] <+Jefro> Tartarus - adios</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
[20:44] <+RP__> Any other requests before we close?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:44] <+koen> not from me</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">[20:44] * RP__ closes the meeting</div><div class="yj6qo c4rCgd" style="cursor: pointer; outline-style: none; outline-width: initial; outline-color: initial; padding-top: 10px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 0px; width: 22px; margin-top: 2px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
</div><div><br></div>-- <br>Jeff Osier-Mixon <a href="http://jefro.net/blog" target="_blank">http://jefro.net/blog</a><div>Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel <a href="http://yoctoproject.org" target="_blank">http://yoctoproject.org</a></div>
<br>