<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">OE-TSC Meeting 22-Nov-2011</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
_________________________________________________________________</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Attending: Mark, Koen, Richard, Khem, Tom</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Apologies: Jefro</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
_________________________________________________________________</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Agenda & Results</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
*) Select a chair...</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Tom</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
<br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">*) Other issues?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
intralayer dependencies</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
*) Revise the TSC's normal meeting time</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">meetings now set for Tuesday 9amPST = 11amCST = 5pmGMT</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Jefro will attempt to alter schedule, otherwise will create minutes from logs</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
<br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">*) Discuss the PACKAGECONFIG policy</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
Using PACKAGECONFIG needs to get evaluated on a per recipe basis, there is no one right way. The rule of thumb:<br><br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
Investigate if there is a need to support multiple parallel configs</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "> If there isn't, use PACKAGECONFIG<br>
<br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Since PACKAGECONFIG is a distro-wide choice, it nearly always is coupled to a matching DISTRO_FEATURE. The current syntax for triggering PACKAGECONFIG of DISTRO_FEATURE is clunky and needs improvement.<br>
</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
Adding PACKAGECONFIG options to recipes is ok, as long as the defaults<br>preserve the current settings. The intent is that people should have to<br>opt in to changes unless discussion reflects otherwise.<br><br>The overriding concern is that functionality shouldn't disappear on<br>
people unless they've made a conscious choice to embrace that change. It<br>should also be stressed that changing PACKAGECONFIG is a distro<br>incompatibility, i.e. distros should use one consistent set of<br>PACKAGECONFIG options only.<br>
</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
*) Other misc items...</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">-- WR Review template?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
not discussed, out of time</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); "><br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
next meeting scheduled 6-Dec-2011 </div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">_________________________________________________________________</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">Raw Transcript</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
<br></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:06 < fray> ok.. it's time.. anyone else here/</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:06 *** koen waves</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:06 *** RP__ is</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:07 < fray> Is anyone logging this?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:08 *** RP__ is logging</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:08 < fray> 'k..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:08 < fray> Does anyone have an agenda to go over?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:08 < RP__> well, the question is whether the three of us can be productive</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:08 <+khem> I am here guys</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:08 <+khem> gm</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:08 < RP__> cool, hi khem</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:08 < fray> Tartarus the only one missing?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:09 < RP__> fray: yes</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:09 < RP__> and Jefro but that is expected</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:09 <+koen> I'll poke tartarus on our work channel</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:11 -!- Tartarus <a href="mailto:trini@pixelshelf.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); ">trini@pixelshelf.com</a> has joined #oe-tsc</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:11 -!- mode/#oe-tsc [+v Tartarus] by ChanServ</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:11 < RP__> koen: Did you read the last meeting's logs?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:11 <+koen> RP__: I did</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:11 < RP__> hi Tartarus</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:11 <+Tartarus> sorry all, had to put daughter down for a nap</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:11 < RP__> koen: any questions/concerns?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:11 <+koen> although is was at 3AM</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:11 <+koen> AIUI you guys says "postpone till next meeting"</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:11 < RP__> koen: on that specific topic, yes</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:12 < RP__> so we're all here</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:12 < fray> <a href="http://pastebin.com/LN5SX1bk" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); ">http://pastebin.com/LN5SX1bk</a></div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:12 < RP__> volunteer to chair?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:12 < fray> that is what I have for an agenda</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:12 < RP__> I can volunteer</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:13 < RP__> but jefro complains I always do ;-)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:13 < fray> hey I did it last week.. ;)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:13 < RP__> fray: I know :)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:13 <+khem> ok let me volunteer this time</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:13 <+Tartarus> i'll do it this week</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:13 <+Tartarus> heh</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:13 < fray> :)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:13 <+khem> ok Tartarus it is</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:13 < RP__> Tartarus: go for it</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:13 <+Tartarus> Someone logging?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:14 < fray> RP is</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:14 *** khem is</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:14 <+Tartarus> k</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:14 < RP__> Tartarus: yes, I'll get jefro the logs</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:14 <+Tartarus> So, other issues?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:14 < RP__> I think those are the main ones</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:14 <+Tartarus> OK, so meeting time</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:14 <+Tartarus> Um, does this time work for everyone normally, aside from Jefro?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:14 < RP__> Tartarus: yes</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:14 <+khem> I dont have any issues other than we should think of ways/process for intra layer deps</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:14 < fray> Works for me</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:14 < RP__> much better for me</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:15 < fray> ohh actually wait.. I do have another issue -- but it can wait until next week..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:15 <+khem> It works for me</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:15 <+Tartarus> koen, this time works for you as well?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:15 <+koen> this time works for me as well</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:15 < fray> someone was asking me about meta-oe vs oe-core.. policy on when things go where and who monitors it's being followed</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:15 <+khem> 2 hrs early would be ok too</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:15 <+Tartarus> -2h from now is a bit too early for me</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:16 <+khem> ok lets pin on this time then</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:16 <+Tartarus> So, I think we should try and keep to this time and either ask Jefro if he can re-arrange or we'll just live with getting him the logs to make minutes from?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:16 <+Tartarus> Anyone disagree?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:16 < RP__> Tartarus: sounds like a good plan to me</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:16 <+Tartarus> OK, next item, PACKAGECONFIG</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:16 < fray> works for me</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:17 <+Tartarus> Last week I summarized what I thought what koen was saying, then said lets wait for him to be here</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:17 <+Tartarus> But it'd be best I think if koen summarized what he sees as the problem himself</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:17 <+koen> I get the impression it is a solution waiting for a problem</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:18 <+koen> and RP seems to like his new hammer and treats every problem as a nail</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:18 <+Tartarus> Some form of USE flag not called a USE flag is a problem</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:18 <+Tartarus> We did agree there before, I thought</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:18 <+Tartarus> back at the f2f meeting in SF</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:18 <+koen> I severely object to the "we have packageconfig, so it is the only acceptable solution" mentality</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:19 < RP__> koen: Ok, so you have two things there. Whether we need it at all and when it should be used</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:19 <+koen> AFAICT we agreed to the need for useflags and also that they are a last resort</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:19 < RP__> koen: On the first subject, is there a need?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:19 < fray> koen, I don't think it's the ONLY solution, but I do think it needs to be the primary solution, unless someone can justify something else on a package</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:19 < RP__> User feedback says yes, people want a way of disabling things like X11, configuring which gstreamer plugins to build and so forth</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:19 <+khem> will it be globally specified or per recipe ?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:19 < RP__> should pulseaudio get used in qt?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:20 < fray> I see a need, so I can change default behaviors per recipe</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:20 < RP__> Can we please discuss this in some kind of order?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:20 <+koen> is qt going to change to packageconfig?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:20 < fray> but -I- expect a change to be made on a distro basis..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:20 <+koen> so a distro needs to choose between qt/e and qt/x11?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:20 < RP__> If we all ask random questions and skip to implementation this is going to be an impossible discussion to have</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:20 <+koen> that's what you're saying</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:21 < RP__> koen: no, at this point I;'m saying there are some usecases we don't have a good solution for without PACKAGECONFIG</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:21 < RP__> so is there a need for something, I believe the answer to be yes</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:22 < RP__> What really convinced me of this is the idea of trying to customise some configuration from a layer</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:22 < fray> I see three steps of distro creation? Selecting the source packages to build.. Selecting the "distro config" to select multiple package settings, and packageconfig settings when tailoring a specific recipe. packageconfig though is recipe specific.</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:22 < RP__> Several people out there are trying to do this and finding it very hard. I have difficulty in saying "no you cannot disable configure option XXX" and you should use what is in the core or not at all</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:23 <+khem> I see it complicating the things </div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:23 <+koen> a lot of issues can be solved by having 2 recipes, like we have in OE-classic</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:23 < RP__> We're supposed to be about flexibility and configurabilty so making it hard for people doesn't seem right</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:23 <+khem> RP__: what will it be limited too</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:23 < RP__> koen: agreed and this is a big worry</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:23 <+koen> but apparently "parse time" is more important</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:23 < fray> Khem, I agree.. that is the one concern I have with the flags approach. It makes it much harder to test, if you want to support all combinations</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:24 <+koen> I like having the option to include mplayer with and without X support in an image</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:24 <+koen> WITHOUT changing distro</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:24 < RP__> koen: I'm not discussing implementation yet</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:24 < RP__> I'm trying to explain the needs</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:24 < RP__> Are we clear on the need or not?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:24 < fray> I believe it -is- needed, but policy is that default configuration must be reasonable...</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:25 <+Tartarus> I don't think we're totally clear on the need</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:25 <+Tartarus> All of them, at least</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:25 <+koen> I agree that it's needed, but it still needs to be a last resort</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:25 < RP__> Tartarus: me neither which is why I don't want to skip to implementation :/</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:25 < fray> I think it's reasonable to say alternative configurations should be justified, and unit testing on a recipe basis is needed by the maintainer of the package..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:25 <+khem> so we need it to configure distro ? images ? </div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:25 <+Tartarus> So, I think on the 'needs' side, we also need to include something about what this implies to the implementation</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:26 < fray> what I don't want to see is a recipe that every possible option to 'configure' is spelled out within a packageconfig setting..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:26 <+Tartarus> IOW, if I want to change how it's built, how much of my previous world is now invalid?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:26 < RP__> My big concern is that if we don't have something in the core, we'll end up with all kinds of half complete custom solutions with people hacking it to fit their needs</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:26 < RP__> and the OE project will get a bad name as a result</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:26 < fray> RP__, I've already seen some of that</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:26 < RP__> fray: right :(</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:27 <+khem> fray: e.g.</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:27 < RP__> This is also a topic which has been "punted" at several OEDEMs</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:27 < fray> lots of misc .bbappend files that simply change a small config setting...</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:27 < RP__> "too hard", "no resources"</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:27 < RP__> pb_ for example has for a long time wanted to disable X completely</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:28 < fray> when we have altenative configurations that are reasonable, I believe there needs to be a way for them to go into oe-core</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:28 < fray> (I see X btw as a distro flag -- because it affects more then one recipe)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:28 < RP__> I've also heard of people wanting to customise gstreamer plugin dependencies as there are things they need to add and things they're clearly never going to want</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:28 <+Tartarus> Well, do we agree that how the choice of what is in, and how changing that choice impacts what was already built, is part of the needs?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:28 < fray> BTW I think this is potentially another gotcha we have to be aware of.. people using recipe flags when they're really distro flags..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:29 < fray> Tartarus it is for me.</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:29 <+koen> or even image flags</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:29 < fray> ya, and image flags</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:29 <+koen> e.g. qt</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:29 <+khem> RP__: why dont extend distro_features </div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:29 <+koen> I do NOT want that to get an x11 packageconfig flag</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:29 <+Tartarus> Since we need to support, in the end, both "world" distros like angstrom</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:29 <+Tartarus> and device specific custom builds</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:30 < fray> koen, I think an x11 packageconfig flag is incorrect.. that is a distro flag.</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:30 < RP__> So do we agree there are users asking for recipe *and* distro *and* image based control of configuration?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:30 < fray> RP__, again, I agree that is hte need.</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:30 < RP__> I'm going to assume yes here so now lets look at the constraints we have</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:30 < fray> can we define image control though -- this is what is built (sources)? what is installed (binaries)? or?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:31 < RP__> Image based control I think we do well enough today</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:31 < fray> can you give me an example?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:31 < RP__> i.e. we split things up into very granular packages and you chose which to install</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:31 < fray> ok, thanks.. then I am thinking the same</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:32 < RP__> some things definetely need to operate at the distro level</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:32 < RP__> in general I agree X11 should be something the distro chooses</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:32 <+Tartarus> So, other needs we need to discuss?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:32 <+Tartarus> Or shall we really get into implementation details now</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:32 < RP__> however I can sympathise with the case where someone doesn't want package X pulling in X</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:34 < fray> at WR (non bitbake, so it is different!) we have a concept of automatic "recipe" flags.. i.e. if the user has decided to build expat, then things that might work with expat are told it's now available...</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:34 < fray> but if you just request the item (and expat isn't there), it's not added to the dependency list..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:34 < fray> I see this as somewhat the same concept.. but with a bit more explicit setting when the default isn't what someone wants</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:35 < fray> (the current WR approach won't work with bitbake because there isn't a static list of sources the user has said they want to build the final image..)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:35 <+koen> as an example: I do not want to go back to the time where a distro had to choose between opie or gpe, but couldn't build both</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:36 <+koen> that's why we had virtual/sdl</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:36 <+koen> (which is not the best example, but a decent illustration)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:36 < fray> I understand the desire.. I think this is someone we have to keep in mind as we frame the discussion on recipe flags</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:36 -!- RP__ ~<a href="mailto:richard@dan.rpsys.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); ">richard@dan.rpsys.net</a> has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:37 <+koen> so if you use DISTRO_FEATURES and/or PACKAGECONFIG you're forcing a choice on a distro level</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:37 <+khem> I am still not convinced why per recipe configs </div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:37 <+koen> I'd like to avoid that where possible</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:37 < fray> yes, that is my expectation -- you are forcing a decision that affects what is built..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:38 <+khem> if the feature pans across recipes it makes sense </div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:38 <+koen> fray: on a distro level</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:38 <+Tartarus> Hang on, RP just ping'd out</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:38 <+Tartarus> lets pause for a minute</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:38 <+Tartarus> So we don't have to paste him 600 lines :)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:39 <+khem> or is it an effort that we want to reduce recipe appends and move the same to a local.conf or some such </div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:39 < fray> koen -- both distro flags and recipe flags affect the produced distribution. I think that is an important thing to remember when someone implements one.</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:39 <+koen> I agree that for some recipes distro flags make sense, e.g. 'core' recipes and x11, but for others the multiple recipe or "just accept X is getting built for gstreamer" might work better</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:39 < fray> alternatives is a different approach to resolving an issue -- it moves the decision to the image install (binaries) vs build-time..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:40 <+Tartarus> Note that lots of people are picky about build-time</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:40 <+Tartarus> (with good reason)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:40 <+koen> Tartarus: sstate cures that and brings world peace</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:40 < fray> build-time, as well as not wanting the choice at install-time.. IMHO one thing we currently don't have is a good mechanism to choose from alternatives</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:40 <+khem> fray: you mean build a package multiple times ?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:40 < fray> (at install time)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:41 < fray> khem, no alternatives as in the gpe / opie thing koen mentioned</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:41 <+khem> ok</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:41 < fray> looks like RP might have completely fallen off the net..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:41 <+koen> 'RP' is still online</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:41 <+koen> 'RP__' isn't</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:42 -!- mode/#oe-tsc [+o Tartarus] by ChanServ</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:43 <+koen> IMO we need to look at using DISTRO_FEATURES/PACKAGECONFIG on a per recipe basis</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:43 <+koen> and not say "it's the default solution"</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:43 -!- RP__ ~<a href="mailto:richard@dan.rpsys.net" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); ">richard@dan.rpsys.net</a> has joined #oe-tsc</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:43 < fray> RP__ back?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:43 <@Tartarus> RP__: <a href="http://pastebin.com/nFNeuEPx" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); ">http://pastebin.com/nFNeuEPx</a> brings you up to date</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:43 < RP__> Am I back now?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:43 <+koen> OE shouldn't become like GNOME3</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:44 < RP__> ok, so I was talking to myself for a while :(</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:44 < fray> let us know when you've caught up, etc.. :)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:46 < RP__> so having ways of handling recipe based configuration as a customisation is still something some people are going to want even if its "derived" from a distro flag</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:46 < RP__> In terms of implementation, one of the constraints needs to be that the default behaviour doesn't change</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:46 < RP__> The patch on the mailing list that triggered this discussion fell down in that regard</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:46 < RP__> The second place it fell down in my opinion is it didn't follow through on the defaults from the distro features</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:46 < RP__> So now looking specifically at the options we have for distro and recipe features</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:46 < RP__> We currently have various distro conditional statements springing up throughout the codebase. I can't say I love the syntax but I've yet to come up with anything better</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:46 < RP__> There are some cases where its possible to split the recipe into two e.g. avahi and avahi-ui</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:46 < RP__> Unfortunately these recipes duplicate build time and parse time and are rather ungainly in their appearance at the code level</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:46 < RP__> They're also fragile and easy to screw up. The avahi recipe is currently broken and causing races as both recipes are installing files into the sysroot and conflicting with each other :(</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:46 < RP__> See failures in the Yocto autobuilder as proof I think there is a time and a place for such recipes, qt4 is an example of where such a split does make sense and can be made to work particularly where parallel installs of something make sense but so far the ugliness and how hard these things are to get right is favouring me at least to look for alternaives</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:47 < RP__> Sorry, I've pasted my backlog, still reading your conversation</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:48 < RP__> Am I still here?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:48 <+khem> I agree on constaints</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:48 < fray> yes</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:48 < fray> Ya I do as well.. I'm failing at summarizing my thoughts though</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:49 < RP__> So what I'm proposing that that nothing should really change for distros or recipes *by default*</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:49 < fray> as a distribution creator, I need to set constraints on what (or more to the point how) things are built to generate my binary package set</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:49 < RP__> i.e. the default PACKAGECONFIG for a given recipe should really be as it is today</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:49 < fray> then a second step is installing those into the image, by chosing the correct set to get hte image I want..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:50 < RP__> however I do thing we need to start allowing people to be able to customise recipe configuration on a per recipe basis more easily</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:50 < fray> we need a way to make choices -- and we need a mechanism to provide alternative packages when the distribution creator can't/doesn't want to make the image choice early..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:50 < fray> correct?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:50 < RP__> If they do this, all bets are off as far as distro compatibility goes</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:50 < fray> RP__ for the most part I agree.. I think most of our recipes the defaults are correct.. but it's something to evalute as time goes on..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:50 <+khem> I think it should be made easy enough to change the PACKAGECONFIG if one has to</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:51 < RP__> fray: yes, we can and will continue to do that</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:51 < fray> my users don't want distro compatibility.. they want their requirements reflected in the produced distro</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:51 <+khem> may be it should be dumped by bitbake somewhere during build</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:51 < RP__> so for example, if there is an X11 related PACKAGE_CONFIG option, it should be pulling that from DISTRO_FEATURES by default</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:51 < fray> RP__ agreed</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:51 < RP__> so the build output is maximal</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:51 < fray> pam, selinux, x11, directfb, ... these are all distro wide decisions to me</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:52 <@Tartarus> But again, while we need to support the 'world' type distro too</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:52 <+koen> not in all cases</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:52 < RP__> and its those maximal configurations angstrom, yocto and others continue to work on</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:52 < fray> do I support md4 in openssl, that is a local recipe decision</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:52 <@Tartarus> ie "here's the feed of everything, you pick the binaries you need"</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:52 < RP__> Tartarus: this is why I'm suggesting maximal(ish) configurations by defaults (as today)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:52 < fray> Tartarus yes.. difference from highly tailored embedded distro to more generic distro</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:52 <@Tartarus> RP__: that's not right, for angstrom if I follow koen right</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:53 < RP__> Tartarus: have you an exmaple</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:53 <@Tartarus> Both foo+x11 and foo+nox11 .ipk should be able to be built</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:53 <+koen> within reasonable limits</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:53 <@Tartarus> Or more concrete, qt/e and qt/x11</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:53 <@Tartarus> right koen?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:53 <+koen> right</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:53 < RP__> well, qt is a good example</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:53 <+koen> qt is a great example</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:53 < RP__> and I'm not proposing that change</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:54 < RP__> however pulseaudio as part of qt is perhaps a different question</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:54 < fray> I think the answer there (distro flag was) is you (don't disable) x11 and (enable) directfb -- or whatever the qt/e technology in question is..</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:54 < RP__> we don't want recipe sfor qt/e with pa, qt/e without pa and so on</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:54 <@Tartarus> fray: That's just what we don't want</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:54 < fray> but that will require recipes and knowledge to determine what to do for conflicting distro flags</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:54 <@Tartarus> Again, if I follow koen right, we want to be able to do bitbake qt4-x11 qt4-e</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:55 <+koen> qt has a plugin architecture, so if you don't care about buildtime, don't install the <foo> plugin</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:55 <@Tartarus> and get the ipks for both</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:55 <+koen> e.g. don't install phonon-backend-pulse</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:55 < RP__> koen: doesn't work for pulseaudio :(</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:55 < fray> koen, but only if the runtime plug-ins are enabled</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:55 < RP__> koen: I was told it wasn't a module :/</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:55 < fray> but that is different.. a plug-in architecture can be defined at install time, not build-time</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:55 < RP__> koen: If that isn't true then its a different question</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:55 <+koen> RP__: I haven't checked, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:56 < RP__> koen: bluelightning checked and said it was a hard depends :(</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:56 < fray> policy wise -- for things that have a runtime plUg-in architecture.. it's reasonable (IMHO) to select the items at image time.. (somehow)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:56 <+khem> fray: with IMAGE_FEATURES may be</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:57 < fray> khem, yes perhaps</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:57 <@Tartarus> OK, pause please</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:57 <@Tartarus> lets not get off in the weeds on QT</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:57 <@Tartarus> That's a specific problem we need to sort out how to fit into the general implementation we need to agree on</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:58 <+koen> I think I can summarize my position as: let's investigate if there's a (real) need to support multiple parallel configs, if not -> USEFLAG</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:58 < fray> koen I think that is a reasonable policy statement when someone suggests a flag usage</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:58 < RP__> koen: I think that sums up the distinction well</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
09:59 < RP__> Taking some examples, its clear there is a need for qt</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:59 < fray> (implementation wise, I do have a concern with flags that we could end up with ones the people don't know about.. so why have them)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:59 <+khem> ok, I am still not convinced so I need to do my homework learn use cases etc.</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">09:59 < RP__> What about avahi?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:00 < RP__> and then the question of distcc</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:00 <+koen> iirc distcc is covered by the x11 flag</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:00 < fray> in both of those cases -- if the distro flag for X11 is present, then the system is saying go ahead and use it.. the recipes should break out the UI parts into subpackages..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:00 < fray> so if during the final image create X11 isn't desired, then it won't cause it to be pulled in.. but yet it's still available in the feed</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:01 < RP__> koen: but can we do it through the PACKAGECONFIG mechanism based on DISTRO_FEATURES?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:01 <+koen> the avahi problem is more subtle</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:01 <+koen> RP__: right</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:01 <+koen> avahi will link everything to gtk+ if you enable the UI</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:01 <+koen> while it only needs to link the ui lib</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:01 <+koen> that's how it was in the past</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:01 < fray> that to me seems like a recipe/package bug -or- a reason to split it..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:01 < RP__> koen: That sounds like a bug we should fix in avahi tbh</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:02 <+koen> RP__: agreed</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:02 < fray> again in that case a split can be justified (or a bug fix)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:02 < fray> ...of course do we end up with a flag that says if gtk+ is available or not?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:02 < RP__> So in the distcc case (or avahi assuming it doesn't do insane linking), my thought was PACKAGECONFIG ??= "${@base_contains('DISTRO_FEATURES', 'x11', 'x11', '', d)}</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:02 < RP__> or something like that</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:02 < fray> I've built systems before w/ no x11, but did have gtk+ (and directfb)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:03 < RP__> fray: hence the "something like that"</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:03 < fray> RP__ ya.. that seems reasonable..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:03 < fray> the issue though is there some mechanism for a recipe to self-document it's packageconfig usages? if not that would likely be a good thing to do ASAP, so it becomes standard</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:04 < RP__> The benefit of this is that its a sane default (no change) but allows people to override under certain circumstances (and which point we should be clear they're on their own)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:04 < fray> RP__ yes, that looks reasonable to me</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:04 <+khem> I think we need to capture configure arguments in .ipks or rpms too </div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:04 < fray> (rpms it can be easy.. there is a mechanism called arbitrary tags where we can shove whatever data we want into)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:05 < RP__> khem: Changing PACKAGECONFIG is like changing DISTRO_FEATURES, bets are off when you start playing with these</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:05 < fray> --or-- the packageconfig values can be put into the package descriptions...</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:05 < RP__> a feed needs a consistent set of the variables</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:05 < fray> RP__ agreed.. these settings are distro wide.. so change it and the feed changes</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:05 <+khem> RP__: yes, however the cases I have been thinking easily were going into DISTRO_FEATURES in my head </div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:06 <+khem> but I am not opposed to change</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:06 < fray> the more i think about it, the more I like distro_features becoming promoted into packageconfig on a person recipe basis</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:07 < fray> it allows someone to override, but makes the assumption that most settings are derived from distro features</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:07 <+khem> RP__: many times there will be support questions because of PACKAGECONFIG</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:07 < RP__> fray: right, I've come to that conclusion over time (and believe me, I've given this a lot of thought)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:08 < RP__> koen/Tartarus: Where are your thoughts at?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:08 < fray> khem, ya.. we will need a way to embed the values somewhere so it can be retrieved..</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:08 <@Tartarus> thinking</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:09 < RP__> FWIW you can add arbitrary tags to ipks as well</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:09 < fray> ahh, didn't know that, what about deb?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:09 < RP__> whether the tools/indexers show them different question</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:09 <@Tartarus> I think we're keeping all 3 of the use cases in mind</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:10 <@Tartarus> (3 == defaults, customized device build and 'world' distro)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:10 <+koen> PACKAGECONFIG is nearly always tied to DISTRO_FEATURES (when it's used correctly)</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:10 < RP__> Tartarus: yes, I think all three should be covered</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:10 < RP__> koen: agreed, there will often be (and should be) a tie</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:11 < RP__> I say often as there might be cases where a distro wide feature doesn't make sense</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:12 < RP__> I do realise that going forward we're going to see a lot more of these PACKAGE_CONFIG options. Its why I've looked long and hard at the syntax and tried to come up with something neat</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:12 < RP__> The defaults from DISTRO_FEATURES is less neat atm</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:12 < RP__> but I believe we'll find a way to figure that piece out</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:13 < RP__> even if its syntax like DISTRO:x11 or something</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:13 <+khem> RP__: where will PACKAGECONFIG exist in implementation ?</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:13 < RP__> khem: it already exists today in base.bbclass</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:13 <+khem> recipe .bb ?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:13 <+khem> RP__: I meant the use of it</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:13 < RP__> khem: yes, recipe .bb or .inc</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:14 < RP__> Its all "metadata" rather than any real code</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:14 < RP__> particularly if we support some syntax like DISTRO:x11</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:15 <+koen> should we move on to other topics n the agenda now?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:15 <+khem> RP__: then distros which want different PACKAGECONFIG has to override the recipe or .bbappend to it ?</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:15 <@Tartarus> If we're good and everyone else has time</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:15 < RP__> khem: Its a ??= so they can set PACKAGE_CONFIG_pn-XXX</div>
<div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">10:15 < RP__> khem: so yes</div><div style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
10:15 <+khem> ok</div><div class="yj6qo ajU" style="cursor: pointer; outline-style: none; outline-width: initial; outline-color: initial; padding-top: 10px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 0px; width: 22px; margin-top: 2px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.917969); ">
</div><div><br></div>-- <br>Jeff Osier-Mixon <a href="http://jefro.net/blog" target="_blank">http://jefro.net/blog</a><div>Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel <a href="http://yoctoproject.org" target="_blank">http://yoctoproject.org</a></div>
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