<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">OpenEmbedded Technical Steering Committee</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
31 July 2012</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Attendees: Mark, Koen, Richard, Paul</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Apologies: Khem</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">________________________________________________________________</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Agenda & Results</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
1. pick a chair - bluelightning</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
2. lingering issues</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
a. raise awareness of "janitor" list, QA "bugs"</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> -> continue</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
b. discuss communication with OE community about release-oriented phases</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> -> continue</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
c. pre/post install scripting (fray)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> => ask mailing list for proposals - continue</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">3. new issues</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
a. oe-made-easy script in getting started instructions - fixed</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
b. systemd</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> => discuss on mailing list (all)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
=> bluelightning to send out current status to list</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> => bluelightning to create enhancement bug in Yocto bugzilla to implement gitpkgv functionality in fetcher (done, bug 2872)</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
c. PR bumps</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> => koen to investigate server & report back</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
=> bluelightning to test on autobuilder infrastructure</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> => bluelightning to document setup steps on wiki</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
d. package.bbclass whitespace</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> tabs resulting in warnings, seems better in general</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
some fallout, some positive comments</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
e. meta-networking</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> => continue discussion on mailing list</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> lengthy discussion of patches against various layers, proper handling</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">4. status</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> a. Should we still support separation of / and /usr?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> b. khem to file enhancement request for python devshell (done)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> c. oe-core release</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
there will be discussion on the list about release process</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> d. infrastructure</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> mailing list issue (koen) - board is coping with it, keep on agenda</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> ________________________________________________________________</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Raw Transcript</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[16:57] <bluelightning> hi folks</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[16:58] <koen> hey bluelightning</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[16:58] --> RP__ has joined this channel (~<a href="mailto:richard@dan.rpsys.net" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">richard@dan.rpsys.net</a>).</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[16:59] <fray> hey</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[16:59] <fray> with vacation and travel, it feels like we just had a meeting.. :P</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[16:59] <bluelightning> heh</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:00] * RP__ is wiped out today :/</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:01] <fray> I think I've had 3 work days since the last meeting.. :P</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:01] <koen> "Didn't we have a meeting last week?"</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:01] * RP__ hopes nobody is expecting him to make any sense</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:01] <fray> RP__, it's ok to sit in the corner and drool for a bit.. :)</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:01] <RP__> two weeks ago. We agreed on the python whitespace change and I've spent since then dealing with it</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:02] <RP__> or so it feels like! ;-)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:04] <Jefro> hi all - sorry, I am here but on phone - please carry on</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:04] <koen> any new things on the agenda or just the same?</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:04] <Jefro> 7/17 schedule is here <a href="http://piratepad.net/QVuGPkIJZr" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">http://piratepad.net/QVuGPkIJZr</a></div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:04] <fray> I don't have anything new</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:04] <koen> RP__: I finally have a build finished, so I can try turning on the auto PR stuff</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:04] <Jefro> one thing is that I still need to get notes up :/</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:05] <RP__> koen: I'll make sure work on any issues gets prioritised...</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:06] <RP__> ok, who is chairing</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:06] <RP__> and has anyone heard from Khem?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:06] <bluelightning> I can do it, haven't done it for a while</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:06] <fray> khem -- not this morning..</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:06] <bluelightning> re khem, no...</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:07] <RP__> bluelightning: go for it</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:07] <bluelightning> ok, so 1 is done</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:07] <RP__> I pinged khem</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:07] <bluelightning> 2a: raise awareness of "janitor" list, QA "bugs"</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:08] <fray> still to be done... :(</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:08] <RP__> ongoing</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:08] <bluelightning> presumably same applies to 2b/c ?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:09] <fray> yes</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:09] <bluelightning> ok, let's move on to 3a then</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:09] <bluelightning> oe-made-easy script in getting started instructions</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:09] <fray> last week we reached a decision on that.. did anyone have the time to change hte wiki?</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:09] <bluelightning> I think I've resolved this to my own satisfaction</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:09] <bluelightning> yep</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:09] <bluelightning> <a href="http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OpenEmbedded-Core#Getting_Started" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OpenEmbedded-Core#Getting_Started</a></div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:10] <bluelightning> should be more useful all around as well</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:10] <RP__> bluelightning: looks much better, thanks!</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:10] <fray> works for me</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:11] <bluelightning> ok, so if there's nothing further... 3b: systemd</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:11] <RP__> I hear progress is being made there?</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:12] <bluelightning> well, the split happened prior to last meeting and there hasn't been a huge amount of fall-out AFAIK, but koen can possibly elaborate</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:13] <bluelightning> AR for me from last time was to post an announcement which I did not get around to though</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:15] <RP__> bluelightning: I guess you've a reminder now :)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:15] <bluelightning> yes</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:15] <bluelightning> as for remaining issues blocking moving towards the core, there is at least gitpkgv and switching to making it a distro config option</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:16] <bluelightning> khem has moved libcgroup to oe-core, that's a minor step forward</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:16] <fray> ohh I hadn't seen that..</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:16] <bluelightning> is there already a bug open for replicating the gitpkgv functionality in the fetcher?</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:17] <bluelightning> that's what will need to be done...</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:17] <bluelightning> doesn't look like it</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:18] <RP__> There was a kind of previous attempt. It shouldn't be hard</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:18] <bluelightning> I wouldn't have thought so, no</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:18] <bluelightning> ok well, AR to me to create an enhancement bug for that</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:19] <bluelightning> any further comments on systemd? koen, you've been rather quiet today...</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:20] <bluelightning> if not, let's move onto 3c: PR bumps</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:21] <bluelightning> koen has indicated he's ready to test it</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:21] <RP__> I think koen commented on that above, he's about to test</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:21] <bluelightning> right</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:21] <RP__> which is great, I look forward to the result and we will work through any issues</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:21] <bluelightning> I haven't talked to michael/beth about running tests on the yocto AB infrastructure but it sounds like they have their hands full atm</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:23] <RP__> bluelightning: right now would be a bad time</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:24] <fray> is there any light coming up, or does it look pretty frantic for a while..</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:24] <bluelightning> RP__: ok, I guess I should just make sure we have enough docs so that they know what to do when the time comes</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:24] <fray> I know we had talked before about sometime in august switching, but I'm still worried we don't know enough</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:24] <RP__> fray: I keep thinking there is light coming up :/</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:24] <koen> can I add a 'meta-networking' item to the agenda?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:24] <bluelightning> koen: sure</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:24] <koen> great</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:25] <bluelightning> ok, well I think we're done with 3c</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:25] <bluelightning> on to 3d: package.bbclass whitespace</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:25] <bluelightning> presumably this is now sorted?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:25] <fray> I've seen some fallout on that, but in generate is seems much better</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:26] <bluelightning> yeah, we expected some</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:26] <bluelightning> I don't have a handle on how much grief we caused for other layers</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:26] <fray> I don't think it was bad</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:27] <fray> I figure in a few weeks as more layers roll forward, we might get some more stuff..</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:27] <RP__> It resulted in warnings, not errors so it shouldn't have been too bad</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:27] <bluelightning> it sounds like the fallout was less than expected</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:27] <fray> the biggest thing I heard about was 3 vs 4 character whitespace in things like package.bbclass..</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:27] <fray> bluelightning certainly less then I expected</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:28] <koen> I had to remove a few layers (meta-java, meta-opie) to get things going again</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:28] <bluelightning> koen: hmm, I was not aware that meta-opie was broken</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:28] <bluelightning> probably because I haven't tested it since...</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:28] <koen> bluelightning: could be an interaction issue</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:28] <bluelightning> will look into that later</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:28] <koen> it breaks parsing, so easy to find out :)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:29] <bluelightning> koen: is henning aware of the meta-java issue?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:29] <koen> people sent patches for it</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:29] <koen> so I assume he is</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:29] <bluelightning> ok, so presumably that's being handled then</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:30] <bluelightning> any further comments?</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:30] <RP__> FWIW I did get some positive feedback on the whitespace change too (as in they were pleased we were fixing what can be a nasty issue)</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:30] <bluelightning> great :) a rare thing it seems</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:31] <fray> RP__ that is what I got by a few people as well</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:31] <RP__> It is nice to hear someone liking a change rather than complaining the build broke</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:31] <RP__> :)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:31] <bluelightning> :)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:32] <bluelightning> ok then, let's move onto 3e: meta-networking</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:32] <fray> I think the folks who worked with the whitespace will be happier... and those that don't probably didn't notice</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:32] <bluelightning> koen: fire away...</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:33] <koen> I still don't get what Joe is going on about "subtrees" and "modules"</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:33] <koen> I don't get a good feeling about it</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:33] <fray> there are lots of classes of "networking"</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:33] <RP__> I actually wondered about proposing using combo layer here</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:33] <fray> everything from network services, to device setup, to routing, etc..</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:33] <koen> it looks like windriver is wanting to do their own layer and not care about others</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:34] <RP__> so joe maintains the layer in a git repo but that is flattened and committed to meta-oe effectively automagically</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:34] <bluelightning> koen: I don't think that's it at all</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:34] <koen> which is fine, but it seems it's turning into some half-assed arrangement now</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:34] <koen> RP__: see, that scares me</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:34] <RP__> koen: I would like to steer clear of submodules too fwiw and I understand about not wanting to split up meta-oe more</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:34] <fray> arranging the files and capabilities is needed.. dumping them all into one big bucket isn't going to work (from a maintenance standpoint)</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:34] <RP__> koen: I can also see why he wants something he can clone and use separate to meta-oe</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:35] <koen> RP__: seperate in what way?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:35] <koen> RP__: no other files in the git clone?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:35] <RP__> koen: as a separate repository without the rest of meta-oe</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:35] <RP__> koen: yes</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:35] <fray> (speaking as a commercial provider for a second).. meta-oe is a good repository of recipes for us.. but we're never going to ship meta-oe.. we need pieces of it, but not all of it..</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:35] <fray> simple reason, it's got too much stuff that we're simply not willing to validate or support</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:35] <koen> fray: which is fine</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:36] <RP__> I will say the combo layer tooling is great and I'm using it quite nicely</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:36] <RP__> and it could handle this with ease, its a 1:1 mapping no problem</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:36] <fray> networking is something that is wanted, and we don't want to deviate from an open source layer if possible.. (we deviate, we have more to support)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:36] <koen> but when doing the actual work, you should be working on an abstracted thing</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:36] <koen> should *not*</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:36] <bluelightning> one option would be to use something like combo-layer to make the separate layer if that's what Joe would prefer; but the layer in meta-openembedded would need to be the "master"</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:36] <bluelightning> for community preference</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:36] <RP__> koen: "abstracted" in what way?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:37] <fray> concern with any type of "combined" git repository is having to cherry pick and manage the patches</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:37] <koen> RP__: combo-layer/subtree/whatever</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:37] <RP__> bluelightning: I think either can be the master, its kind of irrelevant semantics as long as they're in sync</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:37] <RP__> koen: meta-networking is meant to work standalone regardless of whether its part of meta-oe, right?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:37] <koen> "as long as they're in sync" <- wishfull thinking</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:37] <fray> RP__ that would be my hope</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:37] <bluelightning> RP__: can be, sure, but you know how it's easier for us to put stuff into bitbake / OE-Core than to try to accept patches at both ends, the same would apply here I would think</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:38] <RP__> koen: I will personally go and bang heads together if they're not</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:38] <RP__> koen: same as applied to poky = bitbake + meta-yocto + oe-core</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:38] <koen> RP__: that's nice, but still isn't instilling confidence</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:38] <RP__> and yes, there is a meta-yocto now</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:39] <RP__> bluelightning: well, presumably patches would be applied by the maintainer to one tree and synced to the other. If there are a group of maintainers they need to figure out the process</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:39] <RP__> Think of the big picture here for a second</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:39] <fray> RP__, yup select maintainers -- let them figure out the process that works best for them</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:40] <RP__> Monolithic layers cause immense problems with maintainership</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:40] <bluelightning> sure</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:40] <bluelightning> I think being a community layer there's little chance of it remaining as only the list of recipes that WR is interested in supporting; and Joe already acknowledges that</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:40] <RP__> I would much prefer a larger set of well maintained layers with specific purposes that forcing everything into one repo over cloning/usability issues</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:40] <bluelightning> which means there has to be some kind of separate thing even if it's only internal to WR</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:40] <RP__> I do get the usability concern and its why we have combo-layer in the first place</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:40] <koen> bluelightning: but the plan is still to make that repo a second class citizen</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:41] <koen> bluelightning: which is a recipe for disaster (pun not intended)</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:41] * bluelightning goes to check the thread</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:41] <RP__> koen: There is no second class citizen</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:41] <RP__> koen: is poky a second class citizen to oe-core or vice versa, no</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:41] <fray> (again not speaking on behalf of the oe-tsc for a second) WR's policy is that we pull layers from open source.. if there are items in it we don't want, can't support then we blacklist them.. we don't want to have to cherry pick and create a "variant" of the layer</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:41] <RP__> koen: they just have different use cases</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:42] <RP__> sure we've had some issues getting poky/oe-core tamed but there is 8 years of history there</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:42] <fray> And I fully expect meta-networking to have items that WR (or anyone else) may not want.. but vastly fewer of those items then meta-oe as a whole</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:42] <koen> RP__: since you mention it...</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:42] <RP__> this shouldn't be hard by comparision</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:42] <koen> RP__: I still see poky based pull requests on oe-core</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:42] <bluelightning> koen: Joe states explicitly "there will never be commits to it that don't come from commits to the meta-networking layer of meta-openembedded"</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:42] <koen> RP__: and people not getting the problem with that when being told that</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:42] <RP__> koen: As I've said, I don't actually care, I apply the patch emails</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:42] <bluelightning> koen: surely that's what you're after?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:43] <RP__> koen: People can contribute against what they're comfortable with. I have scripts that move patches from a poky tree to OE-Core and vice verse</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:43] <koen> bluelightning: it sounds like it, but the other part of the email isn't clear to me</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:43] <koen> RP__: there shouldn't be poky based stuff on the oe-core list</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:43] <RP__> koen: I'll just tell people to stop posting git trees</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:44] <RP__> koen: It'll hurt me and Saul but who cares</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:44] <bluelightning> koen: feel free to reply asking for clarification, Joe's happy to discuss anything I think</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:44] <fray> koen, I'm not sure i agree.. primary discussion of poky (angstrom, or anything else) doesn't belong on oe-core.. but if it's relevant to the oe-core direction (and that includes patches) I don't see a problem, unless it gets disruptive</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:44] <koen> RP__: people sending poky based patches is just as bad</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:45] <RP__> koen: even thought they apply cleanly to OE-Core?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:45] <RP__> koen: I agree on the ones that touch meta-yocto and people do get shouted at when they do that</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:45] <koen> RP__: last time I tried they didn't</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:45] <RP__> koen: I'd like examples please as they should and there would be a good reason if they didn't</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:46] <RP__> if there is a true problem there I want to understand it but I don't understand how that can happen right now</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:46] <RP__> With meta-networking, I suggest we ask Joe for a specific clearly spelt out plan for it and mention the combo-layer tool</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:47] <RP__> I think if there is a clear understanding of 100% sync, its worth trying. The TSC can reserve the right to change that if it doesn't work out</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:47] <fray> (and for the record, I'm not involved w/ the meta-networking stuff)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:47] <RP__> I do think we need to at least try and experiment with some of these things</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:47] <RP__> and also acknowledge there could be some bumps but we can likely work through those</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:48] <RP__> I think if we get this right, OE can grow as a project</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:48] <fray> I agree</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:48] <RP__> If we get this wrong, it could hurt us badly</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:48] <bluelightning> what I think we ought not to lose sight of as well, is that what we're gaining is additional maintained networking recipes that we did not have before</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:48] <RP__> by wrong I mean choose not to experiment and stagnate</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:48] <koen> bluelightning: that's irrelevant if it breaks the complete stack every other week</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:48] <bluelightning> so this is not just an exercise in rearrangement, OE stands to benefit quite a lot</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:48] <bluelightning> koen: that's a straw man...</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:49] <RP__> koen: If it is breaking things every week we need to understand why and agree a way to fix that</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:49] <RP__> koen: The TSC is here to deal with that an empowered to do so</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:49] <fray> if/when it starts to break, the TSC needs to step in and figure out why, and how to stop that... but until then, I don't see it as an issue</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:49] <koen> RP__: I'd like to try to prevent breakage :)</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:50] <koen> then again, it's not like I have been able to do a build the past 2 weeks</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:50] <RP__> It has been a bad spot for various reasons. I'm hoping things will calm down a bit now</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:50] <RP__> and those reasons are unrelated to the maintenance of a layer like this</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:51] <bluelightning> koen: if you have remaining issues please report them, don't wait two weeks...</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:51] <koen> bluelightning: I had a deadline for a release today, so my focus was on the denzil based stuff</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:51] <bluelightning> koen: same applies...</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:51] <bluelightning> if anything broken denzil is even more serious than broken master, if that's what has occurred</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:52] <koen> the denzil stuff works fine</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:52] <bluelightning> right, presumably you are referring to master breakage only</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:53] <bluelightning> ok, so we have discussed a few things... let's move onto the next topic</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:53] <RP__> Part of this is about being attractive to new maintainers too</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:53] <RP__> We need to let maintainers have some freedom in layers whilst addressing the various constraints we need to operate in</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:54] <RP__> I'm worried the hoops Joe is having to jump through will put off other potential maintainers :(</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:54] <koen> RP__: you're confusing 2 things</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:54] <RP__> That isn't to say we shouldn't have a discussion but we do also need to draw the line somewhere and make a decision</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:54] <koen> Joe is jumping through hoops because his original proposal broke a few layers in meta-openembedded badly</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:55] <RP__> koen: Well, there are multiple angles to the discussion</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:55] <koen> then the proposal was to put meta-networking in the meta-openembedded repo and still break the other layers badly</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:55] <RP__> koen: The break other layers badly piece is resolved now though?</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:55] <koen> I think we're at a point now were things don't break badly, but Joe wants to do fancy subtree stuff that is destined to go wrong</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:56] <RP__> My view is that if we do that, we should use combo layer to manage things</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:56] <RP__> not submodules or repo etc.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:57] <RP__> part of the reasoning is what we can adjust the tooling to do what we need it to do if necessary</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:57] <RP__> We're running out of time, I need to leave shortly</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:58] <bluelightning> right</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:59] <bluelightning> I don't think the remaining items need further discussion this week</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:59] <bluelightning> mostly ongoing</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[17:59] <fray> I'm happy w/ that</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[17:59] <bluelightning> any objections to closing the meeting there?</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[18:00] <bluelightning> ok, I guess that's all for this meeting, folks</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[18:00] <RP__> no, I'm assuming this goes back to the mailing list</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[18:00] <bluelightning> right</div>
<div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">[18:01] <fray> yup</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
[18:01] <bluelightning> we need to continue to help people towards a solution</div><div><br></div>-- <br>Jeff Osier-Mixon <a href="http://jefro.net/blog" target="_blank">http://jefro.net/blog</a><div>Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel <a href="http://yoctoproject.org" target="_blank">http://yoctoproject.org</a></div>
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