[oe] [OE-core] OE TSC Minutes 4 June 2013

[Jeff Osier-Mixon]

Several weeks ago, response times were getting high from oe.org and so
the TSC discussed possibly moving hosting over to the Yocto Project
and/or to mirror on kernel.org. I volunteered to do some research (and
talk to Tom, which I think I did informally at the time). Things got
better after the release so this dropped in priority and I haven't
followed up lately.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 3:50 PM, Philip Balister <philip at balister.org> wrote:
> On 06/07/2013 05:54 PM, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
>> OpenEmbedded Technical Steering Committee
>> 4 June 2013
>>
>> Attendees:
>>   Koen (koen)
>>   Fray (fray)
>>   Paul (bluelightning)
>>   Richard (RP)
>> Apologies:
>>   Khem (khem) on vacation
>>
>> Notes: Jefro
>>
>> Agenda at a glance:
>>
>> 1. pick a chair
>> 2. new issues
>> 3. lingering issues
>> 4. projects in progress - status
>> a. oe-classic recipe migration status
>> b. oe-core release
>> c. meta-oe appends/overlayed recipes RFC
>> d. 1.5 planning
>> e. python 3
>> f. release status notification
>> 5. infrastructure
>> a. oe.org flooded
>> 6. projects deferred
>> a. raise awareness of "janitor" list, QA "bugs"
>> b. document whitespace changes to the shell
>> c. raise ntp with the Yocto Project [RP]
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Agenda & Results
>>
>> 1. pick a chair
>> fray
>> ___________________________________
>> 2. new issues
>>
>> a. elections
>> => jefro to flag the board, recommend defer elections until 3a is decided
>>
>> ___________________________________
>> 3. lingering issues
>>
>> a. role of the TSC
>> (http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-core/2013-April/038756.html)
>> proposal: monthly IRC meeting to replace one of the bi-weekly TSC
>> meetings, open to all
>> split the TSC role in two.. have a infrastructure, etc TSC similar to
>> now.. as well as 'resolve technical conflicts'
>> => post RFC on mailing list (RP)
>> defer
>>
>> ___________________________________
>> 4. projects in progress - status
>>
>> a. oe-classic recipe migration status
>> drop from agenda after this
>>
>> b. oe-core release
>> release status emails very well received
>> stabilisation period for 1.5 M1 now
>> teething issues w/ gcc 4.8
>> trending OK
>>
>> c. meta-oe appends/overlayed recipes RFC
>> still remaining: busybox and gst-ffmpeg bbappends, xserver-nodm-init
>> many recipes (.bbappends) still using PRINC
>> Warning: PRINC is deprecated, the use of the PR server is recommended, see ...
>> => RFC switching wholeheartedly to libav (bluelightning)
>>  sent, a few responses
>> => issue warning, plan to make it an error in 1.5, revisit before release (RP)
>> => document PRINC - PR server migration steps (fray)
>> => proposal: error and a disable flag, revise RFC patch (fray)
>>
>> d. 1.5 planning
>> planning mostly complete - bugs will be considered for next cycle at this point
>> RP on sabbatical
>> drop from agenda after this
>>
>> e. python 3
>> need to start informing people of it -now-
>> loop around to decide python version etc - no current update
>>
>> f. release status notification
>> => maintain a wiki page to summarize release goals (jefro)
>>
>> ___________________________________
>> 5. infrastructure
>>
>> a. oe.org flooded
>> => investigate YP hosting, kernel.org mirror (jefro)
>> monitor
>
> Do you guys mind adding some detail to this item? I'd like to get an
> idea of what the issues are and talk with Tom King.
>
> Philip
>
>>
>> ___________________________________
>> 6. projects deferred
>>
>> a. raise awareness of "janitor" list, QA "bugs"
>> defer to after 1.4
>>
>> b. document whitespace changes to the shell
>> http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Commit_Patch_Message_Guidelines
>> http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Styleguide
>> https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Recipe_%26_Patch_Style_Guide
>> => still need to de-dup these, need a volunteer
>> ask for volunteers after 1.4 (jefro)
>>
>> c. raise ntp with the Yocto Project [RP]
>> immediate need addressed, reasonable default needed
>> use LICENSE_FLAGS - non-commercial
>> no default set after Paul's changes
>> RP raised with YP AB
>> => going to mailing lists & someone should write a proposal
>> => fray will send to list after 1.4
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________
>> Raw Transcript
>>
>> (9:01:56 AM) RP: Jefro: are we due an election for me sometime around now?
>> (9:02:24 AM) bluelightning: hi RP, Jefro
>> (9:02:32 AM) fray: I thought elections were pushed to 2014
>> (9:02:34 AM) Jefro: RP yes - I reminded the board a while back but I
>> haven't seen anything happen
>> (9:02:40 AM) fray: ut maybe I'm off a year
>> (9:02:42 AM) bluelightning: hi fray
>> (9:02:52 AM) Jefro: fray really? I have it down for this year. RP was
>> last elected in 2011
>> (9:03:10 AM) RP: time flies...
>> (9:03:15 AM) fray: Moves to a two year cycle.. but ya, if 2011 was the
>> last election, then RP would be up
>> (9:03:17 AM) Jefro: it might be good to settle the ongoing role of the
>> TSC before going there
>> (9:03:27 AM) fray: I would definitely agree..
>> (9:03:33 AM) fray: we're once again in a transition period
>> (9:03:33 AM) RP: well, we need to flag to the board that this is due
>> (9:03:39 AM) RP: its then up to them what to do...
>> (9:03:46 AM) ***fray agrees
>> (9:03:48 AM) Jefro: I'll remind them again today
>> (9:03:53 AM) RP: but we need to sort this out, I agree
>> (9:04:07 AM) RP: I'm afraid my ARs from the last meeting slipped my mind :(
>> (9:04:40 AM) Jefro: my fault ...  sending out the minutes slipped MY mind
>> (9:04:49 AM) bluelightning: we are missing khem; koen said he might be late
>> (9:04:58 AM) fray: with the meeting minutes of the 21st getting ready
>> to go out (if they havn't) then, it should be a good tiem to send the
>> RFC about the change in the TSC behavior/role
>> (9:05:18 AM) Jefro: just need khem's ack
>> (9:05:22 AM) fray: So as far as that AR goes, I think yuo still have time.. :)
>> (9:05:27 AM) RP: fray: its a good time but I need to write them
>> (9:08:06 AM) Jefro: pinging khem
>> (9:09:06 AM) Jefro: agenda at http://pastebin.com/mjdhsaGT
>> (9:11:13 AM) koen [~koen at ip4da2a5ae.direct-adsl.nl] entered the room.
>> (9:12:20 AM) Jefro: good morning koen - agenda at http://pastebin.com/mjdhsaGT
>> (9:12:23 AM) Jefro: still waiting for khem
>> (9:13:10 AM) ***koen is waiting for dessert at the restaurant
>> (9:13:27 AM) fray: :)  Now you are just making me hungry.. (almost
>> lunch time here)
>> (9:15:15 AM) Jefro: In the interest of time I'd suggest getting started
>> (9:15:20 AM) fray: yup
>> (9:15:50 AM) fray: I can chair if desired..
>> (9:16:24 AM) Jefro: recorded - although I'm afraid we may have lost a few folks
>> (9:16:52 AM) fray: we still have enough here for a quorum?
>> (9:17:01 AM) fray: RP/bluelightnign/koen?
>> (9:17:28 AM) RP: I'm here
>> (9:17:32 AM) koen: here
>> (9:17:37 AM) RP: sorry just doing a few things at once :(
>> (9:17:50 AM) fray: NP
>> (9:18:00 AM) fray: ok, I assume bluelightning is similarly busy.. ok
>> we'll go on..
>> (9:18:11 AM) fray: new issues/lingering issues?
>> (9:18:14 AM) bluelightning: I am here, sorry
>> (9:18:32 AM) fray: for lingering just the email that needs to go to
>> the list about the role of the TC.. anything else?  (I don't think we
>> need further discussion)
>> (9:19:11 AM) bluelightning: don't think so
>> (9:19:37 AM) fray: ok onto 4 then..  4a - oe-classic migrations tatus,
>> anything new?
>> (9:19:52 AM) bluelightning: nothing that I'm aware of
>> (9:20:19 AM) fray: is there much more work to be done, or is that
>> project pretty much over?
>> (9:20:29 AM) bluelightning: there are still a lot of recipes not migrated
>> (9:20:38 AM) bluelightning: but there's no point in mass migration
>> without maintainers
>> (9:20:58 AM) bluelightning: plus there's a ton of cruft in OE-Classic
>> (9:21:05 AM) bluelightning: so not all of it would make sense to migrate anyway
>> (9:21:11 AM) fray: ok.. should this remain on the agenda, or should is
>> go away until new maintainers step up or?
>> (9:21:49 AM) bluelightning: I'm not sure... I don't see that there are
>> any future actions for the TSC for this issue
>> (9:22:17 AM) fray: that's what I was thinking.. so lets drop it unless
>> something new comes up.. (drop it from the agenda that is)
>> (9:22:26 AM) bluelightning: right, sounds sensible to me
>> (9:22:33 AM) fray: 4b -- oe-core release...
>> (9:23:01 AM) fray: The relase status emails from RP seem to be well recieved..
>> (9:24:22 AM) koen: Daves
>> (9:24:25 AM) koen: ehm
>> (9:24:39 AM) koen: saves me a lot of reading
>> (9:25:06 AM) fray: actually both..
>> (9:26:01 AM) fray: RP -- anything to add on the oe-core release?
>> (9:27:44 AM) RP: sorry, totally distracted, be back in 5 minutes :(
>> (9:28:13 AM) bluelightning: I can say something in RP's absence
>> (9:28:20 AM) fray: please..
>> (9:29:07 AM) bluelightning: we're entering a stabilisation period for 1.5 M1 now
>> (9:29:40 AM) bluelightning: coming towards the end of 1.4.1 although I
>> think I will be pulling in a few more patches
>> (9:29:59 AM) fray: I know we've had some teething issues w/ gcc 4.8.
>> ARM machines are not booting, and PPC e500(v2) are generating an ICE..
>>  both of which I believe are being worked on...
>> (9:30:06 AM) bluelightning: right
>> (9:30:36 AM) koen: 4.8.1 is out
>> (9:30:42 AM) bluelightning: indeed
>> (9:30:46 AM) RP: back now, reading log
>> (9:30:49 AM) fray: :)  I know, we need to uprev, but I've been waiting
>> for Khem to comment..
>> (9:31:06 AM) koen: Khem is on vacation
>> (9:31:18 AM) fray: ahh..  didn't realize that
>> (9:32:19 AM) RP: Yes, teething troubles with gcc 4.8 are a
>> frustration, we'd hoped to do the toolchain migration early
>> (9:32:41 AM) RP: patches are getting merged and things are moving forward
>> (9:33:09 AM) RP: the bigger question is whether I'm ok to take a lower
>> profile at the end of the month for a few weeks
>> (9:33:38 AM) RP: I think we're trending ok
>> (9:33:49 AM) fray: That's my gut feeling as well
>> (9:33:51 AM) RP: I'm continuing to work on the core bitbake changes
>> we'd like to see in 1.5 too
>> (9:34:16 AM) RP: the cooker configuration split seems to be stable and
>> working well in my new code, there are other pieces working much less
>> well
>> (9:34:39 AM) RP: memory resident bitbake is now a lot closer too, we
>> have standalone server mode
>> (9:35:45 AM) fray: ok.. 4c -- meta-oe appends/overlayed recipes RFC..
>> (9:36:15 AM) fray: I'm trying to remember which one this is, the PRINC
>> discussion?
>> (9:36:33 AM) RP: well, there are two parts
>> (9:36:55 AM) RP: I think many overlayed recipes have no been cleaned
>> up, not least thanks to bluelightning
>> (9:37:02 AM) RP: (or ones with appends)
>> (9:37:13 AM) RP: The PRINC discussion never really took off
>> (9:37:27 AM) bluelightning: we're still at the same point as we have
>> been now for weeks as regards appends and overlayed recipes in meta-oe
>> (9:37:29 AM) RP: the making it a warning does have some issues
>> (9:38:09 AM) fray: I just saw concern (PRINC) about the need for revs
>> to not go backwards, and that huge numbers of warnings/errors are
>> burdensome.. (I don't disagree with either BTW)..
>> (9:38:13 AM) fray: just not sure what to d about it
>> (9:39:33 AM) Jefro: I believe the plan was long-term advertisement
>> that warnings would turn into errors, but then to reevaluate at the
>> next release cycle whether to actually make that happen
>> (9:39:39 AM) RP: fray: I do worry that the timing with the warning for
>> a PR removal needs to be rather exact
>> (9:40:07 AM) fray: yes
>> (9:40:41 AM) RP: if we go the error route that is less of an issue
>> (9:40:47 AM) fray: The only other thing I can think of is to put in
>> the warning code (RFC) and have a disable flag on it..
>> (9:40:51 AM) RP: well, a non-issue
>> (9:41:17 AM) RP: How about error and a disable flag?
>> (9:41:58 AM) fray: I'm ok with that..
>> (9:42:04 AM) fray: give me the action to revise the RFC patch with that
>> (9:42:13 AM) RP: fray: sounds like a good plan
>> (9:42:14 AM) ***Jefro noted
>> (9:42:19 AM) RP: fray: thanks
>> (9:42:30 AM) fray: ok.. net
>> (9:42:32 AM) fray: next
>> (9:42:39 AM) fray: 1.5 planning..
>> (9:42:43 AM) fray: anything to add here?
>> (9:43:11 AM) bluelightning: don't think so, we're well out of planning now
>> (9:43:24 AM) RP: agreed, drop that from the agenda
>> (9:43:44 AM) ***Jefro noted
>> (9:43:44 AM) fray: ok..  so lets drop 4d (planning 1.5)
>> (9:43:45 AM) fray: 4e, python 3 -- anything new?
>> (9:43:45 AM) RP: and for python 3 I've no update, not had a chance to
>> do much with it
>> (9:43:52 AM) fray: np..
>> (9:44:04 AM) fray: 4f - release status notification ..
>> (9:44:10 AM) fray: did we already mention this?
>> (9:44:36 AM) bluelightning: yes
>> (9:44:47 AM) fray: ok.. 5a -- YP mailing list migration..
>> (9:44:54 AM) fray: AFAIK, that is now complete and working.. any concerns?
>> (9:45:13 AM) fray: :(
>> (9:45:20 AM) fray: oops wrong channel
>> (9:45:39 AM) Jefro: 5a is oe.org flooded, no?
>> (9:45:42 AM) bluelightning: I don't know of any... I believe Michael
>> was addressing some last cleanup issues a week ago but I should
>> imagine that's squared away by now
>> (9:46:00 AM) RP: I have noticed an increase in spam to bitbake-devel
>> (9:46:05 AM) fray: (I'm looking at http://pastebin.com/mjdhsaGT)
>> (9:46:17 AM) RP: I should mention to michael
>> (9:46:28 AM) RP: Its not making it to the list, only to the moderator
>> (9:46:34 AM) fray: I havn't noticed any more spam -- but I'm not the
>> moderator.. :)
>> (9:47:00 AM) fray: anything else we need to track ont he mailing list
>> migration, or should we drop it fromt he future
>> (9:47:16 AM) bluelightning: I saw "Tom" sent some spam yesterday... I
>> guess it got through because it was from a subscriber
>> (9:47:18 AM) fray: 5b -- oe.org flooded.. anything new to report?
>> (9:47:28 AM) RP: bluelightning: right
>> (9:47:28 AM) fray: Ohh I forgot about that..
>> (9:47:49 AM) Jefro: that's a watch for now, I should put it under deferred
>> (9:47:51 AM) RP: fray: nothing from me on 5b
>> (9:47:57 AM) fray: yup.. works for me..
>> (9:47:59 AM) Jefro: I think the spam was a Tom thing (ie I think he was hacked)
>> (9:48:07 AM) bluelightning: Jefro: mismatch between the top part and detail on 5
>> (9:48:15 AM) bluelightning: Jefro: ah, ok... doh
>> (9:48:16 AM) fray: we'll keep monitoring oe.org flooding.. hopefully
>> it isn't still continuing..
>> (9:48:32 AM) Jefro: bluelightning ah! thanks...
>> (9:48:46 AM) ***Jefro should do the agenda before 11pm Monday night
>> (9:48:49 AM) fray: 6 -- any status on the deferred items?
>> (9:48:50 AM) bluelightning: fray: git traffic was the only other issue
>> I was aware of there, hopefully that's OK now
>> (9:49:21 AM) fray: FYI, I'm still on the hook for the janitor and NTP
>> non-commercial.. I'm going to try to get to that before the next
>> meeting
>> (9:49:22 AM) RP: not from me
>> (9:49:32 AM) bluelightning: fray: we're after 1.4, I guess we should
>> start looking at these (or find someone else to) ?
>> (9:49:43 AM) Jefro: I have a note omn 6a
>> (9:49:44 AM) fray: a/c are my issue..
>> (9:49:45 AM) bluelightning: maybe the TSC role is more important though
>> (9:49:57 AM) RP: yes, that is the most pressing issue now IMO
>> (9:49:59 AM) fray: 6b could be anyone with some tech writing/editing ability
>> (9:50:13 AM) Jefro: I'm revising parts of the YP website and plan to
>> show the Janitors bugzilla section more prominently
>> (9:50:18 AM) fray: ya.. TSC roll is the big one
>> (9:50:31 AM) fray: Jefro, once you do let me know and I'll send the RFC..
>> (9:50:35 AM) bluelightning: we didn't mention my AR for 4c, FYI I sent
>> out the RFC and had a few responses but not many
>> (9:50:38 AM) Jefro: fray ok
>> (9:50:55 AM) bluelightning: (RFC on libav/ffmpeg that is)
>> (9:51:19 AM) fray: bluelightning sorry missed that.. as for the libav,
>> I'm not sure if anyone cares as long as it works..  I know I don't
>> have a strong opinion either way
>> (9:52:06 AM) fray: Do we have anyone (member/community contributor)
>> that really would care a lot and has an opinion?
>> (9:52:20 AM) bluelightning: fray: ok, I'll reply with my proposed
>> course of action (move to libav and have it in core)
>> (9:52:32 AM) fray: seems like a reasonable next step to me..
>> (9:52:46 AM) fray: ok, anythinge else for today.. we've got 8 minutes left
>> (9:52:58 AM) bluelightning: wow, efficient today, good job fray :)
>> (9:53:05 AM) fray: ;)
>> (9:53:27 AM) RP: nothing from me, thanks fray!
>> (9:53:36 AM) Jefro: +1
>> (9:53:38 AM) fray: Thanks all.. meeting over
>> (9:53:44 AM) bluelightning: cheers!
>> (9:54:03 AM) Jefro: minutes faster this time
>> (9:54:04 AM) koen left the room.
>> (11:24:18 AM) bluelightning left the room (quit: Quit: Konversation
>> terminated!!!111).
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog
>> Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel http://yoctoproject.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openembedded-core mailing list
>> Openembedded-core at lists.openembedded.org
>> http://lists.openembedded.org/mailman/listinfo/openembedded-core
>>



-- 
Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog
Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel http://yoctoproject.org