<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">OE TSC meeting 21-Jul-2011<div><br></div><div>Attendees: Koen, Khem, Richard, Tom</div><div>Apologies: Mark, Jefro</div>
<div><br></div><div>Minutes:</div><div><br></div><div><div>01) choose a meeting chair</div><div><br></div><div>khem</div><div><br></div><div>02) new topics</div><div><br></div><div> - melo updates</div><div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">melo VM has some issues where it was dying almost every day</span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">per Tom its not hardware issue</span></div><div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">over next week git will move to the final VM and other services too will then follow</span></div>
<div><br></div><div>03) action items from last week</div><div><br></div><div> --> <span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">mention on list about features and stabilisation (RP) </span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">done</span></div><div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div>
<div> --> patches appearing on oe-dev, khem to send email regarding "put stuff in meta-oe" </div><div>done, can take further</div><div>--> write up which scripts to use (khem)</div><div><br></div><div>05) Status updates</div>
<div> - elections</div><div>delay between elections? need info from board - duration between votes</div><div>--> TSC recommends 2 months to the board</div><div><br></div><div> - oe-core</div><div>tom is beating up siteinfo and cursing perl</div>
<div>fray's multilib work against poky, but he also created a version against oe-core+bitbake</div><div>--> RP to issue an RFC on fray's multilib stuff</div><div><br></div><div> - bsp guidelines</div><div>
<span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Phil posted querries on linux-yocto which was discussed in detail</span></div><div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">khem recommends a </span><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">document on using tooling to extend linux-yocto to a different machine and another doc to use linux-yocto tooling for a different kernel sourcebase</span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">consider having a 'normal' linux recipe in OE core that people can bbappend</span></div><div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Bruce volunteered</span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">--> add status for next week</span></div><div><br></div><div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">Paul Eggleton might be working on some OE wiki doc about OE-Core</span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div> - metadata layer splitting</div><div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">recipes are moving from meta-oe into oe-core somewhat smoothly</span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">general idea is to find a way to split off sato, then rearrange the gnome stuff on into e.g. gmae and gnome-proper and clean up spurious deps</span></div>
<div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div> - infrastructure</div></div><div><br></div><div>Raw Transcript</div><div><br></div><div><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">(21:11:23) khem: Lets start<br>
(21:11:37) RP__: fray is on vacation again<br>(21:11:40) Tartarus: no new agenda items here<br>(21:11:41) khem: we dont have scribe today so someone needs to send transcripts [to Jefro]<br>(21:11:51) ***RP__ can do that<br>
(21:11:53) koen: I'm about to fall asleep, so I'd appreciate if someone else can chair<br>(21:12:05) khem: I can<br>(21:12:37) Tartarus: ok, khem chairs<br>(21:12:47) khem: any new items ?<br>(21:12:50) khem: for agenda<br>
(21:12:57) koen: not from me<br>(21:13:12) khem: melo updates<br>(21:13:19) khem: I would like to add<br>(21:13:54) ***RP__ doesn't have additions<br>(21:14:39) khem: <a href="http://pastebin.com/xa37DyL5" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); ">http://pastebin.com/xa37DyL5</a> here<br>
(21:14:42) khem: agenda<br>(21:14:54) khem: I think melo will fall to infra<br>(21:15:09) khem: AIs from past<br>(21:15:11) RP__: "including Richard in case he wants to stop by"? :)<br>(21:16:32) ***RP__ guesses this is off an old agenda :)<br>
(21:16:59) RP__: Last week I took an AR to mention on list about features and stabilisation. I did that<br>(21:17:06) khem: yes it was I am on a console and weird things can happen with links<br>(21:17:21) khem: OK we can close that AR<br>
(21:17:50) khem: I sent email as well to request devs to post patches to new layering structure<br>(21:17:56) khem: there were questions on that<br>(21:18:32) RP__: Did those questions get good answers?<br>(21:18:36) khem: no<br>
(21:19:03) RP__: Is the problem someone just needs to write them down or is there some unknown things which are the problem?<br>(21:19:07) Tartarus: There's still a need for oe-core for dummies on the oe wiki<br>(21:19:17) khem: yeah as Tartarus said<br>
(21:19:26) khem: people want step by step ramp up guide<br>(21:19:28) Tartarus: no offense, meant, for the log readers, nbtw<br>(21:19:34) Tartarus: I needed that post a while back myself :)<br>(21:20:09) koen: the oe-core and angstrom setupscripts might be to automated for some people<br>
(21:20:21) koen: (and even the 3 steps for the angstrom scripts are too much for some)<br>(21:20:36) khem: I guess we need to reply to that thread<br>(21:21:09) khem: Moving on to Status<br>(21:21:32) Tartarus: Well, hang on<br>
(21:21:36) RP__: I agree some further documentation would be good. Unfortunately I'm maxed out atm and am not sure I can help there :(<br>(21:21:42) Tartarus: We need to write up "Use this script or that script or"<br>
(21:21:44) Tartarus: and someone needs to do that<br>(21:22:05) khem: yes. I can take it further<br>(21:22:11) Tartarus: ok, thanks<br>(21:22:13) khem: and continue the thread<br>(21:22:34) khem: we will follow up on this next week.<br>
(21:22:53) khem: Shall we move on to Status<br>(21:23:00) Tartarus: ok w/ me<br>(21:23:11) koen: the boards seemed to be confused about the elections<br>(21:23:13) koen: -s<br>(21:23:30) koen: so we can pick up the slack or wait<br>
(21:23:34) RP__: thanks khem!<br>(21:23:41) khem: ok now RP is elected back does the second seat election got announced<br>(21:24:02) RP__: Well, I guess the question is whether there is a delay between the elections or not?<br>
(21:24:24) khem: I guess we need to get this information from board<br>(21:25:08) RP__: Going back in time, I think we said a 6 month stable period for the TSC was desireable so the interval was one month between<br>(21:25:18) khem: ok<br>
(21:25:25) khem: which means August<br>(21:25:28) RP__: although at the last meeting we did talk about 2<br>(21:25:43) koen: but with proposal, discuss and vote it is nearly a month if we do back to back<br>(21:26:13) Tartarus: I have no strong opinion either way<br>
(21:26:29) RP__: koen: back to back it probably is then.<br>(21:26:29) koen: I have other things to do, so waiting is my choice<br>(21:26:39) khem: ok<br>(21:26:54) RP__: but I also don't have a really strong preference, I'm just observing what's been previously discussed<br>
(21:28:18) khem: do we need to recommend something to board in this regard ?<br>(21:28:28) koen: I think so<br>(21:28:36) koen: their minutes showed confusion<br>(21:29:33) koen: anyway<br>(21:29:34) khem: ok lets make it 2 months I guess that will be good for completing the process<br>
(21:29:36) koen: onto oe-core?<br>(21:30:15) khem: oe-core status it is<br>(21:30:38) Tartarus: Beating up siteinfo, cursing perl<br>(21:30:45) Tartarus: Hope to continue down the first path more, less the second<br>(21:30:55) khem: I tried to make core-images work with uclibc<br>
(21:31:01) RP__: We're getting there wit this...<br>(21:31:27) RP__: re: multilb, fray has done some work on writing nicer more powerful tune files<br>(21:31:39) khem: cool<br>(21:31:41) RP__: The new versions look scary but should actually let people do all the things they want to do<br>
(21:31:55) RP__: I'm aiming to put out a RFC tomorrow<br>(21:32:03) khem: ok<br>(21:32:11) Tartarus: I've seen fray's work, concept seems fine<br>(21:32:27) RP__: I'll proactively merge the bitbake piece to try and make this easier for people to play with since its a simple bitbake change<br>
(21:32:49) RP__: means playing with version numbers again which I'm not so happy about but I can't see a way around it<br>(21:33:09) koen: I'd like to reiterate my wish for merge requests/RFCs to be against oe-core whenever possible<br>
(21:33:59) Tartarus: I concurr but I know fray's stuff is vs poky<br>(21:34:00) khem: OK may be a message clarifying which patches go to which list is needed<br>(21:34:09) Tartarus: And that was partly my point of the email I sent last week we had little discussion about<br>
(21:34:12) RP__: fray did make a version against oe-core +bitbake<br>(21:34:13) koen: since oe-core was very breakage free this week I had time to test things<br>(21:34:30) koen: but since they were against poky I decided to work on kernel 3.0rc<br>
(21:34:48) RP__: koen: Its not that hard to apply them ;-)<br>(21:34:58) Tartarus: RP__: But it's not a git pull<br>(21:35:00) RP__: but I understand and am trying to avoid it where possible<br>(21:35:06) RP__: Tartarus: so?<br>
(21:35:17) Tartarus: So our effort barriers have all changed<br>(21:35:34) Tartarus: "I've gotta export these patches some way to git am them? Bah, I'll go work on something else that's calling my attention"<br>
(21:35:54) RP__: Tartarus: just pull it into a branch and cherrypick<br>(21:35:55) koen: exactly<br>(21:36:02) ***RP__ has to do this all the time<br>(21:36:19) RP__: since nobody actually listens to any requests to make his life any easier<br>
(21:36:40) Tartarus: I'll see what the pain level is next time<br>(21:36:54) Tartarus: but frankly I assumed pulling poky-contrib into oe-core would suck a bit<br>(21:37:01) Tartarus: So I just cloned a contrib tree<br>
(21:37:15) RP__: Tartarus: doesn't actually matter. Means your repo has a few extra refs in<br>(21:37:38) khem: I guess you get more testers if patches are already rebased on oe-core<br>(21:38:01) RP__: khem: rebasing on oe-core isn't so easy when the series touches bitbake+core+meta-yocto<br>
(21:38:02) koen: the idea is that oe-core is the master repo, so patches should be against that, whenever possible<br>(21:38:43) Tartarus: Maybe this is a + for submodule stuff?<br>(21:38:51) khem: so we will await next RFC on multilib<br>
(21:38:55) Tartarus: And kergoth's make+submodule thing (and yes, I'm a bit biased)<br>(21:39:00) RP__: Tartarus: I doubt that<br>(21:39:27) koen: I hate make<br>(21:39:35) koen: and I hate git submodules even more<br>
(21:39:42) ***khem uses make+submodules in slugos<br>(21:39:50) Tartarus: heh<br>(21:40:01) Tartarus: So, moving on then, yes, we all await the next peek at multilib<br>(21:40:01) khem: shall we move to next topic<br>(21:40:11) RP__: Bottom line is that the multilib stuff is hard enough to develop without the branch problems. We're doing out best<br>
(21:40:26) RP__: I'm really sorry its a pain to test and not a simple one liner but I don't think its that big of an issue<br>(21:40:27) khem: agreed<br>(21:40:43) khem: BSP guidelines<br>(21:41:07) khem: Phil posted querries on linux-yocto which was discussed in detail<br>
(21:41:13) khem: would someone want to comment on that<br>(21:41:30) RP__: I read some of the thread, I saw Bruce repsonding and haven't read the conclusion<br>(21:41:44) RP__: Is there something specific that needs commenting on?<br>
(21:42:25) khem: I think a document on using tooling to extend linux-yocto to a different machine and another doc to use linux-yocto tooling for a different kernel sourcebase<br>(21:43:06) khem: I thoght it will be a nice addition to docs<br>
(21:43:54) RP__: Was that mentioned in the thread or is this an extra conclusion?<br>(21:44:02) RP__: Sorry not to be up to speed on that one :/<br>(21:44:05) khem: I guess that was conclusion<br>(21:44:27) RP__: ok, that sounds good to me<br>
(21:44:33) koen: I think we need to consider having a 'normal' linux recipe in OE core that people can bbappend<br>(21:44:37) RP__: Did anyone volunteer or do we need to find now?<br>(21:44:41) RP__: er, find one<br>
(21:44:46) khem: I think Bruce did<br>(21:44:54) Tartarus: koen: Agreed, I thought we agreed to that a while ago.<br>(21:44:55) koen: bruce volunteered for large parts, if not all<br>(21:45:29) RP__: Lets add a status check on this to next week's agenda<br>
(21:45:35) RP__: ^^^^ note for jefro<br>(21:45:36) khem: ok<br>(21:45:52) khem: so moving on ?<br>(21:45:56) RP__: btw, I think Paul Eggleton might be working on some OE wiki doc about OE-Core<br>(21:46:20) khem: anything specific to layering metadata splitting<br>
(21:46:24) ***RP__ will close on that with him tomorrow<br>(21:46:43) RP__: khem: I don't think it goes into specifics on that<br>(21:46:43) khem: thanks RP<br>(21:47:04) khem: RP__: I was mentioning the next topic on agenda :)<br>
(21:47:06) RP__: khem: Just keep an eye open for it to avoid duplication<br>(21:47:17) RP__: khem: ah, yes ;-)<br>(21:48:00) khem: I have observed that recipes are moving from meta-oe into oe-core smoothly<br>(21:48:21) RP__: near enough, yes :)<br>
(21:49:04) khem: if there are no further comments on this then we can talk about infra<br>(21:49:17) koen: people at work were kind of shocked when I told them new recipes will have a tough time getting into oe-core<br>(21:49:23) koen: (new as in new PN, now new PV)<br>
(21:49:35) khem: heh<br>(21:50:03) RP__: koen: well, this is where the layer model comes into play. It depends what they do<br>(21:50:17) koen: RP__: that's what I said<br>(21:50:27) koen: but in general I think oe-core needs to shrink<br>
(21:50:38) koen: I haven't come up with a workable plan, though<br>(21:51:04) RP__: koen: Personally, I suspect its actually about right - enough there to actually test stuff but not so big its unmaintainable<br>(21:51:24) khem: I think if there are recipes that dont go into any core-* image<br>
(21:51:34) khem: that could move out to begin<br>(21:51:47) koen: I was thinking of splitting it up into more layers and then move around a few layers between oe-core, meta-oe, yocto, etc<br>(21:52:11) koen: but like I said, no workable plan yet<br>
(21:52:17) khem: ok<br>(21:52:32) RP__: It is a bit incestuous atm :/<br>(21:53:16) koen: the general idea is to find a way to split off sato, then rearrange the gnome stuff on into e.g. gmae and gnome-proper and clean up spurious deps<br>
(21:53:43) khem: yeah I think just have x11 in oe-core<br>(21:53:44) RP__: I love the way sato is always the target for this :)<br>(21:53:59) koen: RP__: it's the gating item for various gnome portions<br>(21:54:17) ***khem will start about kde<br>
(21:54:26) RP__: koen: Its also a good way to work out the core gnome pieces<br>(21:54:46) koen: RP__: see my comment about rearranging gnome stuff :)<br>(21:54:48) RP__: meta-gmae might be a better name for meta-gnome in core<br>
(21:55:18) RP__: koen: I'm yet to be convinced we should remove all gnome from the core<br>(21:55:20) koen: I'm not sure gmae still exists, but that's just splitting hairs over the name :)<br>(21:55:40) RP__: koen: still exists, whether it actually does anything...<br>
(21:55:44) koen: RP__: I'm not saying we should remove it, just that we split it up, take a step back and then reshuffle<br>(21:55:55) koen: oe-core might end up being bigger, but better seperated<br>(21:56:17) RP__: moving it up a level in the tree might be better I guess<br>
(21:56:25) RP__: its pieces like glib that get messy<br>(21:56:34) ***koen stops handwaving till he has a better thought out plan<br>(21:56:47) RP__: glib2 obviously<br>(21:57:00) RP__: koen: Also keep in mind timings<br>
(21:57:16) RP__: If we do something like that it might need to be next development cycle unless its soon<br>(21:57:26) koen: I know<br>(21:57:49) RP__: So we're nearly out of time - melo?<br>(21:58:21) RP__: I gather something happened but I'm unaware of what<br>
(21:58:22) khem: someone popped here<br>(21:58:23) khem: sorry<br>(21:58:56) khem: melo VM has some issues where it was dying<br>(21:59:01) khem: almost everyday recently<br>(21:59:48) khem: per Tom its not hardware issue since other VMs are running fine on same machine<br>
(22:00:04) RP__: What is special about that VM?<br>(22:00:14) khem: nothing<br>(22:00:15) RP__: or is it broken software wise somehow?<br>(22:00:30) khem: yes it was installed long ago with ubuntu 8.04<br>(22:00:48) khem: and then upgraded to 10.04 but not reinstalled<br>
(22:01:07) khem: so Tom decided that it was time to setup new<br>(22:01:11) koen: Tom K had a good description of the problem at ELC<br>(22:01:12) khem: instance<br>(22:01:53) RP__: ok, it sounds like Tom has a handle on it<br>
(22:02:03) khem: and this vm has tinderbox and bugzilla and stuff installed in weird way<br>(22:02:04) RP__: I have noticed there are some stale DNS entries around<br>(22:02:15) koen: the only issue today was that his mailinglist post got delayed<br>
(22:02:22) khem: thats because git got moved to different machine yesterday<br>(22:02:24) RP__: <a href="http://openembedded.net/" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 204); ">openembedded.net</a> doesn't work properly now<br>
(22:02:35) RP__: but I can guess why<br>(22:03:12) khem: over next week git will move to the final VM and other services too will then follow<br>(22:03:35) RP__: khem: sounds good, thanks go to Tom for fixing this<br>(22:03:52) khem: and to cbrake and yours Truly here :)<br>
(22:04:04) RP__: well, yes, everyone involved! :)<br>(22:04:20) ***RP__ wasn't sure exactly who was working on it<br>(22:04:49) khem: ok so we are done with agenda<br>(22:04:52) khem: thanks everyone<br>(22:05:13) khem: meeting is now closed<br>
(22:05:17) RP__: thanks khem<br></span><span style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">(22:05:24) ***RP__ will mail jefro the logs</span></div></span><br>-- <br>Jeff Osier-Mixon <a href="http://jefro.net/blog" target="_blank">http://jefro.net/blog</a><div>
Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel <a href="http://yoctoproject.org" target="_blank">http://yoctoproject.org</a></div><br>